Here's a post by Robert Bryce that is complementary to several themes I wrote about in this article. https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/these-10-charts-caused-an-ngo-hissy My next article will cover how hydroelectric pumped storage is being used for grid frequency stabilization instead of bulk energy storage.
Thanks for this excellent write-up on this subject. A question occurred to me while reading - shouldn't it be possible to outfit inverters with a feedback circuit that tracks the instantaneous grid frequency and continously adjusts the output frequency to match it?
The challenge is the massive amount of energy storage that would be required at each inverter based resource to achieve this frequency control (as well as the robust electronics required to handle the large instantaneous power requirements.) This is akin to the theoretical grid forming inverters (TGFI) mentioned in the article. Given that TGFIs are not yet available, I believe the best approach is to use synchronous grid inertia, as has been the case since about 1895. https://edisontechcenter.org/AC-PowerHistory.html
There is a fundamental lack of understanding of the technical electrical power engineering theory and practice and how inductive and capacitative supply and loads on an electrical system.
The system is designed around synchronous generation which is inductive and renewables are capacitative on my understanding.
I'm not an electrical engineer, I was a Reactor Physicist and latterly an Operations Engineer for over 20 years, and a lot of people just think its power in and out.
They have no idea of the potential problems of large amounts of intermittent non synchronous generation might have on the reliability of a power grid system.
Thanks for attempting it! beyond my engineering skills!
Thank you. I agree the AC power grid has been designed around synchronous generation. Please note my comments posted on March 13, 2024 above which outline the "TGFI problem."
Here's a relevant new Substack post from David Turver at Eigen Values: Offshore Wind: Follow the Money - UK billpayers subsidising overseas investors and getting expensive, unreliable energy in return by David Turver, March 9, 2024.
While U.K. centric, this article will help you to understand why the economic elites advocating for fickle offshore wind oppose safe, reliable, abundant, cost-effective and zero - emission nuclear power, such as that produced at Diablo Canyon Power Plant.
For some historical context, here's an article from a dozen years ago that is spot on today:
Broken down and rusting, is this the future of Britain's 'wind rush'?
By Tom Leonard, Published 21:00 EDT, 18 March 2012, The Daily Mail (U.K.)
Would it be correct to say that inverter-based resources not having their own frequency means that the inverter has to follow the existing phase and try to match that - but if there isn't a sufficiently large base of sources with an intrisnic phase, they don't have a signal to follow?
I believe there is an adequate signal to follow. Again, the problem for IBRs and TGFIs is the lack of energy storage and electronics capable of handling large instantaneous power flows. That is the strength of large synchronous generators such as Diablo Canyon Power Plant. Over a million pounds rotating at 1800 RPM is beneficial. The next installment will be discussing pumped hydroelectric storage units. PG&E designed Diablo Canyon in conjunction with Helms Pumped Storage whose three motor-generators rotors rated at 404 MW weigh a million pounds each. See: https://web.archive.org/web/20160104221648/http://www.pgecurrents.com/2015/12/16/helms-pumped-storage-facility-team-safely-successfully-completes-unit-1-planned-outage/
I'll be looking forward to that. With no education in energy, I've got a lot of catching up to do if I want to translate this stuff for my fellow laymen.
From another read of the article, my understanding of the problem is more that IBRs and TGFIs cannot dump large amounts of electricity on the grid immediately to restore frequency in event of a fault - very fast reactions is something only really available with pumped hydro from my reading.
Let me know where I've gone wrong - as one usually does when new to a field. :)
Your analysis regarding the instantaneous provision of energy (or the absorption of energy) applies to all synchronous generators such as DCPP, not just pumped storage.
Is the issue a lack of suitable electronics, rather than something with the generation? And the inertia inherent in massive flywheels being able to resist such changes physically rather than compensate for them with electrical output?
Here's a post by Robert Bryce that is complementary to several themes I wrote about in this article. https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/these-10-charts-caused-an-ngo-hissy My next article will cover how hydroelectric pumped storage is being used for grid frequency stabilization instead of bulk energy storage.
Thanks for this excellent write-up on this subject. A question occurred to me while reading - shouldn't it be possible to outfit inverters with a feedback circuit that tracks the instantaneous grid frequency and continously adjusts the output frequency to match it?
The challenge is the massive amount of energy storage that would be required at each inverter based resource to achieve this frequency control (as well as the robust electronics required to handle the large instantaneous power requirements.) This is akin to the theoretical grid forming inverters (TGFI) mentioned in the article. Given that TGFIs are not yet available, I believe the best approach is to use synchronous grid inertia, as has been the case since about 1895. https://edisontechcenter.org/AC-PowerHistory.html
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
Good one Gene,
There is a fundamental lack of understanding of the technical electrical power engineering theory and practice and how inductive and capacitative supply and loads on an electrical system.
The system is designed around synchronous generation which is inductive and renewables are capacitative on my understanding.
I'm not an electrical engineer, I was a Reactor Physicist and latterly an Operations Engineer for over 20 years, and a lot of people just think its power in and out.
They have no idea of the potential problems of large amounts of intermittent non synchronous generation might have on the reliability of a power grid system.
Thanks for attempting it! beyond my engineering skills!
Thank you. I agree the AC power grid has been designed around synchronous generation. Please note my comments posted on March 13, 2024 above which outline the "TGFI problem."
Very informative read! Thank you for going over this critical topic.
Here's a relevant new Substack post from David Turver at Eigen Values: Offshore Wind: Follow the Money - UK billpayers subsidising overseas investors and getting expensive, unreliable energy in return by David Turver, March 9, 2024.
https://davidturver.substack.com/p/offshore-wind-follow-the-money
While U.K. centric, this article will help you to understand why the economic elites advocating for fickle offshore wind oppose safe, reliable, abundant, cost-effective and zero - emission nuclear power, such as that produced at Diablo Canyon Power Plant.
For some historical context, here's an article from a dozen years ago that is spot on today:
Broken down and rusting, is this the future of Britain's 'wind rush'?
By Tom Leonard, Published 21:00 EDT, 18 March 2012, The Daily Mail (U.K.)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116877/Is-future-Britains-wind-rush.html
Would it be correct to say that inverter-based resources not having their own frequency means that the inverter has to follow the existing phase and try to match that - but if there isn't a sufficiently large base of sources with an intrisnic phase, they don't have a signal to follow?
I believe there is an adequate signal to follow. Again, the problem for IBRs and TGFIs is the lack of energy storage and electronics capable of handling large instantaneous power flows. That is the strength of large synchronous generators such as Diablo Canyon Power Plant. Over a million pounds rotating at 1800 RPM is beneficial. The next installment will be discussing pumped hydroelectric storage units. PG&E designed Diablo Canyon in conjunction with Helms Pumped Storage whose three motor-generators rotors rated at 404 MW weigh a million pounds each. See: https://web.archive.org/web/20160104221648/http://www.pgecurrents.com/2015/12/16/helms-pumped-storage-facility-team-safely-successfully-completes-unit-1-planned-outage/
I'll be looking forward to that. With no education in energy, I've got a lot of catching up to do if I want to translate this stuff for my fellow laymen.
From another read of the article, my understanding of the problem is more that IBRs and TGFIs cannot dump large amounts of electricity on the grid immediately to restore frequency in event of a fault - very fast reactions is something only really available with pumped hydro from my reading.
Let me know where I've gone wrong - as one usually does when new to a field. :)
Your analysis regarding the instantaneous provision of energy (or the absorption of energy) applies to all synchronous generators such as DCPP, not just pumped storage.
Is the issue a lack of suitable electronics, rather than something with the generation? And the inertia inherent in massive flywheels being able to resist such changes physically rather than compensate for them with electrical output?
This is where I'm at with the Guides, by the way:
https://argomend.substack.com/p/the-laymans-guide-to-electricity
https://argomend.substack.com/p/the-laymans-guide-to-electricity-bde